Not Addicted

  • Guides
  • World of Warcraft
  • Everquest
  • Everquest II

T(h)anks for Nothing

Posted October 1st, 2008 by Isobelle

Ah, tanking. The thankless task of getting beat in the face repeatedly for the good of the group. There’s no such thing as tanking solo; there has to be some other group member you’re protecting for it to technically be called tanking at all. Warhammer announced that old world class pigeonholes such as tanking and healing were going to be pretty much eliminated, and that everyone would be able to just put out huge damage when needed. While I suppose my black orc can do some damage if he straps on a 2-hander, that’s really nothing new. My tank in WoW could do the same, but my entire talent spec is still “increase my hitpoints, reduce incoming damage”. That doesn’t scream ZOMG DPS to me. The worst part about this is that Public Quests refuse to award tanks like you wouldn’t believe, and so tanking them (which someone has gotta do at one point) is just actively shooting yourself in the foot if you hope to earn any bags at the end.

Healers earn contribution points through healing, and DPS earns it through (surprise) DPSing, but the purpose of a tank is to do neither of these. The purpose of a tank (which hasn’t changed radically in Warhammer) is to soak damage and hold aggro. A few nights back, my guild went on a little Keep taking rampage all over the world map. Anywhere that there was a Keep to take, we went and took it. At the time, nobody was actively defending said Keeps, so we blew through them easily. They were like accelerated Public Quests with one phase… take the Keep!

With about eight in a warband, we would storm up to the gate, drop a battering ram on the door, knock it down, then smash up the stairs after taking out any wandering non-elites on the first floor. Regrouping on the ramp, I’d then rush into the fray and grab the Keep Lord (boss), and one or two of the four champions we had guarding him. The loose champs would be offtanked or just quickly burnt down while my pocket healer kept me going on the main guy. Besides the one resto specced shaman healer, and me (the fully prot specced main tank), everyone else was a nuke class. Just burn burn burn, roll for loots, move on to the next one.

While I feel I played a pretty crucial role in the activity (keep the main enemy DPS focused on me and all my armor), my contribution points never reached up above 3rd or 4th from last (+90 added to my roll, and a bronze medal). I was after renown points anyway, which I got, but seeing my role at the end tally of every Keep be labeled ‘not useful’ seemed kind of a slap in the face. The healer keeping me alive would usually place pretty high, because he was keeping me up and spot healing the DPS off tanks. The DPS got contribution for doing what they do, but the tank, while doing what they do, gets nothing.

This isn’t a huge boo-hoo let’s all feel bad for tanks rant, it’s simply a point that something needs to be reevaluated along the lines of class mechanics for PQ and Keep rolling determinations. If ‘damage taken’ was put into the mix for certain classes it seems like it would make a difference. Obviously, you wouldn’t want to apply it blanketed across all classes, or it would just encourage DPS to pull aggro. But any class with a taunt should be rewarded for using it to help the group. Any class that can equip a shield should be rewarded for using the shield to protect those that can’t.

If there were no elite or lord mobs to tank it would be a non-issue. But they are there, and so it is an issue. They need to be tanked; I remember when a Lord class (champion < hero < lord) waltzed out of the final stage of a PQ and one shotted everyone in the span of about 8 seconds, until we went back and tried it again with two healers keeping me up while everyone whittled him down slowly. Morale skills like Shield Wall are great for staying alive, but do nothing positive to your position in the final tally.

Again: not crying about it, just pointing it out. I love tanking. If I didn’t love it I wouldn’t do it. My first toon in WoW was a prot tank that I played from closed beta till right up at the very end. I like being at the forefront of the raid and playing an important role. I love my healers, and we both appreciate the sacrifices each other has made in talents and specs to be able to do our jobs for the good of the group or guild as a whole.

Warhammer has a few great things they’ve done with tanking in relation to PvP (taunt works), but there are still a few kinks to work out in the long run.

 

.

 
 
Isobelle's picture
Isobelle said:
October 1st, 2008

one other thing that occurs to me is the fact that those earning contribution tend to be the same high ranking DPS over and over. After a certain amount of times, they begin to just take the silver coins out of the loot bag, or just vend the items they win, since they already have better. A nice option (which would never be used, unless in a group of close friends obviously) would be being able to pass on that PQs reward. You could do your contribution for the good of the group itself, or if you're helping a lowbie earn the rank they needed to buy the inf rewards for the zone.

just a thought.

  • reply
 
Someone Unimportant's picture
Someone Unimportant said:
October 1st, 2008
yeah, thats what me and my guildies have though of...send it in as feedback =)
  • reply
 
Houlihan's picture
Houlihan said:
October 1st, 2008
It'd be nice if they awarded points for damage taken or something. But then they'd have to only award tanks, like the more mitigated the damage you take is, the more points you get. I'd hate to have that one jackass who runs around pulling up random champ adds get rewarded for wiping us twelve times.
  • reply
 
Someone Unimportant's picture
Someone Unimportant said:
October 1st, 2008
Award points for damage MITIGATED. Most DPS or healers can't mitigate very well.
  • reply
 
Isobelle's picture
Isobelle said:
October 1st, 2008

mitigated does sound like the best option, but might be harder to calculate? I really have no idea what the code looks like, maybe it would be simple.

Hell, "number of times hit per minute" would work too : / DPS is likely to only get hit once or twice until the tank can pull it off them.

 

  • reply
 
Krimspins's picture
Krimspins said:
October 1st, 2008

The combat log measures mitigated damage. Example below copied verbatim from the log: 

"Last night biletongue shits on Krimsin for 2417 (398-m armor)

Krimsin Dies. You Suck. L2Pn00b"

 So I can't imagine it'd be too tough to add in.  I was with a tank last night named like fullmetal or something.  He was really good.  Landed inside the top 3 on a few PQ's we did.

 

  • reply
 
Someone Unimportant's picture
Someone Unimportant said:
October 1st, 2008
If we have software/code that can do such amazing things with graphics engine, I'm sure that said software can figure out such 'complex' formulas as how to calculate dmg mitigated in a timely manner.
  • reply
 
Someone Unimportant's picture
Someone Unimportant said:
October 2nd, 2008
It already do it. Mob/Boss have a base dmg value and when they hit you, the server check your armor value, calculate the mitigated dmg (say say you reduce dmg by 60%, 1000smg * 0.6 = 600) and reduce the dmg received by you (1000 - 600 = 400). They just need to use this value.
  • reply
 
Isobelle's picture
Isobelle said:
October 7th, 2008

p.s. lol went Deeps on the orc. flailing around with a 2hander, and speccing talents trhat make you hit harder ftw.

i'll tank end game if needed. fuck leveling prot.

  • reply
 
Someone Unimportant's picture
Someone Unimportant said:
October 8th, 2008
I think damage taken would be fine TBH and more practical to implement. I doubt you'd get much DPS trying to pull aggro for extra contribution. I'm a BW (sorry, but Destru queue times are too horrible) and if I get aggro from a Hero (or Champ to a lesser extent) then I am very quickly taking a dirtnap. Granted, 'leather' DPS will last a bit longer but any gains in contribution from damage taken will be more than negated by loss in contribution running back from the GY imposes. It would regulate itself in this way, I think.
  • reply
 
Khatib's picture
Khatib said:
October 10th, 2008

hey check it out, i learned to use the password reset!

You do get contribution for tanking. I don't know if it's dmg taken or mitigated or what, but you get it. I play a black orc and I'm top 3 in pretty much any PQ that I've been at since early phase 1. The hardest part is taking damage during the first phase when no tank is needed and every mob gets steamrolled. You need to make sure in phase 2 and 3 you keep as many champs on you as your healers can keep you up through. Tank EVERYTHING you can. Be a dick too. If there are other tank classes and they taunt a mob... save your taunts so as soon as they taunt a mob, you can taunt it back onto yourself immediately after they've burned their cooldown. You will place much higher. Really.

  • reply
 

Post new comment

Input format
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <blockquote> <b> <i> <strong> <img> <em>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.

More information about formatting options

CAPTCHA
This is to block automated spam.

Main Navigation

  • Home
  • Forums
  • Best of

  • Archives
    • Isobelle
    • Frybread
    • Alihja
    • Gaston

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

All active image ads

rss

Syndicate content